Please note: This vehicle is fictitious in every way. I have no real information on this vehicle, and it is not, to my knowledge, in the works, or even on the planning table at Honda.
Recently, some of my readers have brought up the feasibility of a Honda Accord SI. After all, the Civic has a high performance version available, so why not the Accord? After all, the Accord is one of the best selling vehicles in America, so surely there are buyers who want more performance.
Traditionally, those buyers have been pointed towards the nearest Acura dealership, for a look at the TL, or TL Type S. And therein lies the problem – if a Honda Accord SI was developed, it would compete with the TL and TL Type S. This same situation is what killed the RSX ( The Civic SI had similar performance for less money. )
In light of all this, I think there is room for an Accord SI. For Acura’s sake, no sedan model will be available – only two doors for this one. Here’s a rundown of how this car could potentially be equipped.
2008 Honda Accord SI Specs
- 300 HP 3.5 liter i-VTEC V6
- 6 speed close-ratio manual transmission
- AWD ( Not SH-AWD, we’ll leave that as an Acura only feature for now. )
- Coupe only – no sedan, to limit competition with Acura TL
- Special wheels ( perhaps the TL Type S wheels - they rock )
- Custom sport-seats, perhaps two-toned to match car’s exterior
- Priced at $34,000 or less
Yes, that’s a lot of money for an Accord – a whole lot of money. But naturally it will cost more than the regular Accord, which tops out right around $30,000 without navigation. But I think that Honda could find some buyers for such a car – the performance coupe market is coming back. And with adding AWD to a more powerful engine, I think this car could be a fantastic piece. What do you guys think – any takers?
{ 36 comments… read them below or add one }
YES, CONSIDERING THE LIMITATIONS OF THE FOUR CYL REAR WHEEL DRIVE S2000. THIS WILL BE AN ALTERITIVE THAT WILL OFFER BOTH SATISFACTION OF THE CIVIC SI ALONG WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF THE NSX AND COMFORT OF AN ACCORD IN A COUPE.
Well, looking at the specs that you listed, there’s no way that something like that would only be priced at $34k or less. I mean that’s only $4k more than a full loaded EX-L V6 coupe and includes a bigger, more powerful engine and AWD.
If they don’t go with SH-AWD, where would they get an AWD transmission designed to handle 300 HP from? Something like that needs time to be developed.
The current TL Type-S has a 3.5L V6, but it only cranks out 286 HP, so you’re basically expecting them to put the most powerful engine Honda’s ever offered into an Accord. The NSX only had 290 HP when it retired and even the current RL only has 290 HP.
FYI – The Civic Si didn’t kill the RSX. Honda had already decided to kill the RSX due to lagging sales, but wanted to still offer a lower cost/less luxury car that would cater to younger drivers since the sport compact market is still very strong.
I DON’T THINK HE WAS SAYING THAT THE SALES FROM THE SI KILLED THE RSX, BUT NEVER THE LESS IT WAS KILLED TO OFFER THE SI. IT’S THE SAME DIFFERENCE FROM THE WAY I SEE IT.
THERE ARE VARIOUS SERIES OF ENGINES THAT ARE PRODUCED BY HONDA THAT CAN BE USED. THE POTIENTAL IS ENDLESS FOR EXAMPLE THE NSX USES A 3.0L C32B 290HP ENGINE. WHILE THE TL USES THE NEW VERSION OF J35A1 MOTOR WHICH IS USED IN THE TL AND ACCORDS. NOW HONDA HAS THE J37 PUMPING A 3.7L 300HP@6000RPM WHICH THIS ONE IS USED IN THE MDX. IT JUST SO HAPPENS THE J SERIES ARE MORE WIDELY USED THAN THE C SERIES THUS MAKING THE COST CHEAPER. IT DEPENDS ON THE MOTOR, THE J SERIES CAMS CAN EASILY BE SWAPPED IF NEED BE.
WHEN ACURA RELEASES THEIR V-10 APPROX.550HP SUPERCAR. I DON’T THINK A 3.5L MOTOR WON’T BE BIGGEST BLOCK FOR LONG.
IF THEY JUST USE A J SERIES MOTOR THAT WILL BE SUFFENCENT DUE TO EXPERINCE GAINED FROM USING THIS J SERIES AND POTIENTAL IT HAS. OR THEY COULD GO THE ROUTE OF THE C SERIES WHICH POTIENTALLY COST MORE THAN 34K FOR THE CAR.
FOR A FANTASY CAR, IT DOESN’T SOUND BAD AT ALL AND FOR 34K NOT BAD AT ALL. CUT OUT ALL THE LUXURY FEATURES AND MAKE IT SPORTY AND BASIC LIKE THE 3RD GEN ACCORD PLATFORM THEN I’LL BUY THAT INSTEAD OF THE S2000. GO FIGURE.
300HP AWD ACCORD COUPE= TRILLSEEKERS.
WHICH A 10 HP DIFFERENCE DOESN’T MATTER THAT MUCH AT ALL, 300HP VS 290HP. I PERSONALLY VALUE DISPLACEMENT ALONG WITH HP.
I don’t think an extra $4k would be a problem to cover the upgrades. AWD should only carry about a $2k premium – though some mfr’s tack on as much as $4k for it.. no need to go that far.
I thought Honda had a regular AWD system, though I could surely be wrong. Don’t the Pilot and Ridgeline use AWD systems?
For the engine, I didn’t realize that the RL only had 290 HP, I thought it was an even 300. No matter though. The new Accord will likely be in the 260-280 range. Shouldn’t take much to make it hit the 300 HP mark.
Beyond that, the wheels and the seats.. not too much cost there. I think the $34k mark would be pretty easily attainable, if Honda wanted to. Will they even produce this vehicle? Probably not, because they don’t want to intrude on Acura territory. Hopefully they’ll change their mind on this one though.
I KNOW THE ELEMENT AND THE CR-V HAS AWD SYSTEMS. WHICH THEY COULD COPY AND PASTE IT TO THE ACCORD SI, PLEASE EXCUSE MY CPU THINKING.
TO GET IT TO 300HP CAN BE SOLVED BY ADDING A AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE MUFFLER AND INTAKE, WHICH CAN POTIENTALLY REACH 10% INCREASE IN HP. HAVE MAYBE NOT RACING CAMS BUT A HIGH PERFORMANCE TYPE THAT WILL INCREASE. THAT CAN POSSIBLY BRING A 280HP TO 300 OR CLOSE TO IT. OR HAVE A 260 V6 3.0 INCREASED TO 280HP. OH AND MAKE SURE IT HAS A RED HEAD GASKET. ANY WHOO, WOULD THAT BE FEEZIBLE?
Let’s get one thing straight… Honda killed the RSX because it wasn’t selling. They figured out that people weren’t willing to pay that much for a compact sports coupe… so they stripped off some luxury features (like leather), put a Honda logo on it and called it the Civic Si.
I didn’t say that Honda didn’t have an engine available to make this fantasy Accord Si… I said they didn’t have an AWD transmission available. Also, the last NSX had a 3.2L V6.
I was mistaken, however, about the 300 HP. The current MDX does have 300 HP, but I am correct when I say that currently no cars have 300 HP… so I doubt that they first car they do offer with 300 HP will be an Accord.
The Pilot and Element both have part time AWD systems, but neither vehicle has even close to 300 HP (Pilot has 244 HP; Element has 166 HP), not to mention neither is a sports car, so they are geared differently.
You’re asking alot for only a $4k price increase over the current Accord EX-L V6.
From the “specs”, $4k would need to cover cost and profit for the following…
1. upgrade from 244 HP to 300 HP
2. upgrade from FWD to AWD
3. upgraded wheels
4. upgraded interior
It would probably also need upgraded brakes and more aggressive styling to distinguish itself from the “regular” Accord.
I don’t see a whole lot of ways Honda will be able to equip the car with all this AND make a profit on the upgrades… all for $4k.
ABOUT THE ENGINES, I NEVER SAID THAT YOU DID. I’M ONLY MENTIONING THE VARIOUS SERIES THAT COULD CREATE ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES THAT HONDA HAS CREATED THAT IS ALL.
YAH THE LAST NSX HAD A C32B 3.2L AND THE FIRST MODEL THE C32A WAS A 3.0L NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE.
WELL WE DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY WILL OFFER AS 300HP AS THE NEXT CAR, THAT’S WHY THIS ONE IS A FANTASY CAR. SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN A CAR AND OTHERS CAN SEE AS WELL.
THE INTERIOR, PROBLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED IS THE PETALS, INSTRUMENT PANEL, GEAR LEVER AND SEATS. THAT SHOULDN’T COST A ARM AND A LEG FOR HONDA. CONSIDERING THE LOOK OF THE CIVIC AND CIVIC SI. THEY LOOK THE SAME BOTH IN AND OUT. JUST DO THE SAME WITH THE ACCORD SI, JUST REPLACE THE FRONT AND REAR BUMPER, TO GIVE IT A AGGRESSIVE LOOK AS YOU SAY. THE AWD TRANSMISSION, THEY CAN DO THAT, JUST LIKE THEY DEVELOPED THE TRANSMISSION FOR THE TYPE-R IN JAPAN TO HELP REDUCE TRANSMISSION FUILD LOSS DURING HEAVY CORNERING.
UPGRADING THE ENGINE, IMPROVE THE AIR INTAKE,EXHAST MANAFOLD, MUFFLER, MAYBE REVISE THE ON BOARD COMPUTER CHIP AND ADD HIGH PERFORMANCE CAMS. THAT ALONE WILL MAKE UP FOR THE INCREASE IN POWER.
THE AWD LEAVE THAT FOR THEM TO DECIDE ON HOW TO DO IT.
NOW HOW ARE YOU CONFIGURING YOUR COSTS. BECAUSE MASS PRODUCED PARTS DON’T COST AS MUCH AS RETAILED OR STORE PRICE. IF WE’RE COMPARING COST LET’S MAKE SURE WE HAVE ALL OF THE FACTS STRAIGHT. TRULY WE DON’T KNOW THE ACTUAL COST. PLUS WITH THE LIST YOU’VE CREATED , YOUR MAKING IT HARDER THAN WHAT IT IS. CONSIDERING HONDA, THEY WILL DO WHAT’S NESSESARY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
THAT’S WHY THEY ARE THE CORPORATION AND WE ARE THE CONSUMER. THEY KNOW HOW TO BUILD CARS. WE GIVE ARE OPINIONS, AND THEY LISTEN AND THEY DECIDE WHAT TO DO, CONFIGURING COST, TIME ETC. AND AS FAR AS THEM MAKING MONEY, WE’LL LEAVE IT TO THEM I WOULDN’T WORRY ABOUT IT. AND DO WE ACTUALLY KNOW THE COST OF THE 08 ACCORD?
I BELIEVE 34,000 IS REASONABLE.
THE MAIN ISSUE I SEE IS TRANSMISSION AND AWD SYSTEM.
{THESE ARE JUST MERELY IDEAL CONCEPTS FOR THE ACCORD SI AND ARE NOT REAL IN ANYWAY. BUT IT’S AS CLOSE AS WE CAN GET.}
THE RSX IS DEAD, SIMPLY PUT.
I’m using MSRP across the board in my cost posts. It’s the only way to accurately compare pricing, since what people pay will actually pay will vary.
Also, I didn’t create the list… it was created in the original article that we’re posting about. I just reinterated it. Of course it is difficult… because it is not feasible.
You might think that Honda is able to create this fantasy car for $34k, but looking at their current lineup, I’m saying that I don’t think it’s possible to add on all those features for only $4k.
As far as 2008 Accord pricing, it has not yet been released, but judging from the pricing of competing cars (Camry and Altima), I’d guess that it will be priced similarly or just slightly higher than the current Accord. The Accord has always been priced lower than the Camry. The Camry XLE V6 has an MSRP of $28k.
SO IN OTHER WORDS……. WE REALLY DON’T KNOW WHAT IT WILL ACTUALLY COST…….
I RATHER LEAVE IT UP THE PRICE TO HONDA FOR THAT MATTER AND I’LL DECIDE WEITHER I WANT THE CAR OR NOT. TO ME THEY’VE DONE GOOD SO FAR. MAYBE OFFER IT FOR A LIMITED PRODUCTION LIKE THE INSIGHT AND IF IT DOESN’T DO WELL, THEN TAKE IT OFF THE MARKET IF IT DOES THEN MOVE FORWARD.
If they were to make an si for the accord they should give it the tl-s engine and for the new tl-s it needs the 3.7 to compete with the G37 and i dont think awd should come on it mayby it just needs atts like in the prelude sh and if you dont know what that is it makes it to where when you turn the outer wheel gets more power kind of like sh awd but with out being awd oh and another thing mayby they could use the RDX engine it then it would be incredibly fast.
SO SUPERHANDLING WITHOUT AWD?
THAT WOULDN’T BE A BAD IDEA SINCE THEY’VE ALREADY HAVE SIMILAR TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE FOR THE CIVIC SI. THE HELICAL SLIP DIFFERENTAL INCREASES STEERING DURING CORNERING AND ACCELERATION.
OR THEY COULD MAKE IT RWD LIKE THE S2000
yes sh with out awd but get this i have heard that the 2008 accord coupe will come with a 4 cylinder turbo motor maybe the RDX’s engine.
With that much torque and power in a car toyota and nissan will be blown out of the water oh and another thing i have heard we should be watching for PAX tires on the 2008 accord.
The competition better watch out because here comes HONDA!
true or false? i dont know
are the engines that will be available
bottom line I-4
v6 3.2-3.5
turbo I-4 (only in coupe)
Having SH without AWD would be similar to having a limited slip differential and would be a bad idea.
Having that much power to the front wheels will have horrible torque steer. Look at the TL Type-S… it has an LSD, but there are still complaints about torque steer.
RWD would be better than FWD, but it wouldn’t be very popular in markets where they have to worry about snow.
PAX/run flat tires are not all that they are cracked up to be. In many cases, they don’t even give you a spare tire, so that means when you’re on the road and get a flat, you’re stuck driving on it until you can get it replaced (you won’t be able to repair it after driving on it too long). Plus, they are EXPENSIVE to replace and not all Michelin dealers carry alot of inventory in stock. This means that you could be without a car for a couple days until they get the tire in stock… a bad scenario especially if you’re out-of-town.
Honda hasn’t announced what engines will be available in the 2008 Accord.
The prelude had a SH version and track tests proves that it handles better than if it didnt have it and back then the system was called ATTS and it would only activate when you are making a hard turn so if you were making a hard right the left wheel would get more power it is a good system that can be backed up.
when Pax tires get flats you can drive on them for a very long time up to 60 mph and that should be long enough to get to the nearest honda dealer because they will have them and they are safer because they dont get flats or bolw outs nearly as often as regular tires.
The Prelude also didn’t have 300 HP. I don’t care how many electronics you put onto the car… you will have torque steer issues with a FWD platform with high HP.
PAX tires only allow driving up to 125 miles at 55 mph. Michelin recommends stopping as soon as you can. If you’re on a trip somewhere, good luck trying to find a Honda or Michelin dealer… worse if it is a weekend. Plus, you can’t repair a PAX tire… you have to replace it. They’re also very expensive.
These tire are not any different than regular tires when it comes to being prone to flats… they get them just as easily. The difference is that they allow you to drive on them after they are flat for a longer period of time.
the point of ATTS is not eliminate torque steer but to reduce understeer. If honda does put PAX on the accord it will be an option and options are always good so if you dont think its worth it you dont have to get it. Personaly I would get them.
Regardless… with that much power going to the front wheels, you’ll have torque steer problems. This is why RWD or AWD is preferred when you have high HP.
PAX is not always an option… the Accord Hybrid and Odyssey Touring only come with PAX tires… no spare tire is available.
you dont have to get a hybrid if you want an accord and you dont have to get a touring when you get an Odyssey
SPEAKING OF V6 AWD THESE SPECS ARE SIMILAR TO THE MITSUBISHI ( THE JAPANESE GTO) OR 3000GT HERE IN AMERICA.
OF COURSE BIGGER DISPLACEMENT WOULD HAVE TO MAKE UP FOR THE POWER OF THE TWIN TURBO.
ACTUALLY A J37 SERIES 3.7L DOESN’T SOUND TOO BAD AT ALL IF THEY ARE OFFERING A 3.5L V6, AND STICK WITH THE AWD.
” A 3.7L V6, 300HP,NATURALLY ASPERATED
AWD ACCORD COUPE SI . FROM HONDA.”
honda lover – You’re completely missing my point. You said that Honda will make PAX tires an option… I gave you two examples where they are not options. If you want to get an Accord Hybrid or an Odyssey Touring, you HAVE to get the PAX tires. You say you don’t have to get those cars, but that’s besides the point. It’s NOT an option on those two cars.
If you want to see what the new Accord looks like unmasked go to autoblog.com right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for that post. I wish they would’ve gotten more pictures of both the coupe and sedan. I guess I’ll just have to wait to see them both in person.
FYI – Honda will no longer be offering the PAX system (even as an option) on the 2008 Odyssey Touring. Since the Accord Hybrid is being discontinued, that means that Honda will no longer have any models offering it. Guess I’m not the only one that didn’t think it was all that great.
KUDOS FOR FINDING THAT LINK! NOW THAT RED BABY IS SHARP! YES!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!! I LOOVVVEEE IT!!!!!!!!!!! I WANT THAT CAR SO BAD!!! the sedan is not too bad…… THE COUPE IS STYLING AND PROFILING!!!!! IT’S MY RED BABY. JUST KIDDING. *.*
I STUMBLED ON SOME INTRESTING INFO ON THAT SITE, IT MIGHT NOT BE NEW NEWS, BUT SUPPOSITLY HONDA WILL NOT MAKE A HYBRID ACCORD FOR 2009, INSTEAD THEY’LL PRODUCE A 2.2 OR 2.4L TURBO DIESEL ENGINE THAT HAD DEBUTE ON THEIR WEB SITE A FEW YEARS AGO. I’M SO EXCITED.
OH, AND WE MIGHT, WE MIGHT GET THE TYPE-R CIVIC HERE IN AMERICA WHICH I WAS SHOCKED TO HEAR, BUT IT HASN’T BEEN CONFIRMED JUST YET…. SO I’M KEEPING MY FINGERS CROSSED. >_
Yeah, Honda announced a short while ago that they were discontinuing the Accord Hybrid due to poor sales.
As far as the turbo diesel engines, I doubt that we’ll see them here in the US. Emissions restrictions are pretty tight these days. Currently, no manufacturer has a turbo diesel that has 50-state emissions. I know that Honda is working on one (as are other manufacturers), but I doubt we’ll be seeing any in the near future.
Diesel seems to have better applications where you want high torque and get good gas mileage (i.e. in trucks).
I’d be surprised if we don’t see either the diesel Accord ( more likely ) or a new 4 cylinder Hybrid Accord here in the US. There’s too big a potential market for these vehicles for Honda to miss out. Automakers are finally getting up to spec on the new diesel regulations, and it shouldn’t be a huge hurdle moving forward.
WASN’T THERE A DIESEL FUEL CALLED ULTRA LOW SULFUR OR SOMETHING THAT’S SUPPOSE TO BE CLEANER THAN THE DIESEL NOW?
Yes, they started offering “ultra-low sulfur” diesel last October. It’ll eventually become mandatory in the entire US by 2010.
Even so, diesel engines will still need to be redesigned to take advantage of this “new” diesel and meet the new emissions standards.
WELL THERE’S TALK THAT IN 2009 THAT HONDA WILL START ADDING DIESEL ENGINES TO THE ACCORD AND RIDGELINE LINEUPS, SOMETHING INTRESTING TO HEAR.
I would love the intro of an accord si, I currently have an 03 coupe and all around it’s a great performing car for the money. But leaves you wanting a little more. The acceleration of a larger vtech around 300 to 320 hp would push the car into average GT mustang times. I’ve run mine at the local track and get around 6.2 0-60 times and have reached a pretty high top speed. I considered a Civic SI the first year of the redesign but wound up choosing the accord due to a great deal on a used model. I think it would sell well in the us market when you factor in that the insurance would be in the class of most sedans as a college student this is a major issue for me. Any into model of sports coups such as the V6 mustang or 4 cyl Eclipse run about 45% higher rates on insurance premiums with less performance.
As for cost on adding all wheel drive yes it would be great but for that to enter the market effectively we would have to see the accord si touching into the ground of other higher class sports cars.
I’m all for it and would more than likely purchase one *IF* Honda could at the very least make it perform with the 350Z or RX8 which would be its closest competitors on the asian import markets.
writing in all caps is annoying
UH?
I like where you are going with this idea, and I’m sure alot of unrecognized designers within Honda want to do what you are speaking of. The CR-Z might be the answer, though a bit small and “underpowered”. There is also the S2000 replacement which is probably underway, but it seems more likely that any such coupe of that caliber would be branded as an Acura, perhaps the return of the CL.
I’m betting that there will be a TSX Type-S that will have the turbo setup like that of the RDX, and maybe that will be the next RSX/s2000′s internals. In terms of SH-AWD, I can’t imagine why Honda/Acura wouldn’t expand this technology into its full line-up.
Honda also has it’s priorities set on the NSX replacement and a ground-up FMC for their flagship sedan, the Legend/RL. Unfortunately, A 2-door SI or type-S may be a little farther into the future ; ;
AWD will not be offered in any car that carries HONDA badge. Honda is a better-known brand worldwide comparing to Acura. So, Honda is getting closer and closer to Acura because it is a bigger piece of pie that Honda motor Company needs put a lot of efforts on. And, when it gets better, no doubt it will be close to what Acura offers. This actually has cannibalization effect on Acura. If even a Honda has AWD, then Acura is out of the game for playing(who first got the AWD, the top-of-the-line RL, now you’re putting it in a Honda Accord???The cannibalization is bad enough. Don’t make it worse!). However, North America is where Acura’s market is, it needs to have more differentiations from Honda in order to create brand equity, just like Lexus and Mercedes. Only a bit of the price that we pay now goes into the brand name of Acura comparing to Lexus and Mercedes, more goes to the quality of the car that Acura builts
RSX is out because in order to make the name “Acura” feels luxury, anything under 30k needs to be gone. Does Lexus have anything under 30k?
So, SI did not kill RSX. RSX is gone for the good of Acura brand in order to compete with other upscale brand names.
{ 1 trackback }